Learning Luminary Interview: John Leh, Talented Learning

By Joy Church Millard, Sr. Editor, Expertus

Expertus Learning Luminary LogoEditor’s Note: Welcome to the sixth interview in our “Learning Luminaries” series — where we showcase conversations with the brightest and most innovative minds in the world of enterprise training and development.

This month, we feature John Leh, CEO and Lead Analyst at Talented Learning, LLCJohn is an LMS selection consultant and training industry blogger, focused on helping organizations plan and implement technology strategies that support extended enterprise learning. In 20 years as a learning innovation specialist, John has advised more than 100 organizations with a total technology spend of more than $50 million.

Q1: You’re a newer voice on the LMS analyst front. What led you here?

JL: After earning a graduate degree in instructional technology two decades ago, I began creating e-learning content (before it was called “e-learning”) to support high-tech and telecom channel partners. Later, I transitioned into high-end LMS sales for 13 years — specializing in channel, customer and association solutions.

headshot: John Leh, CEO, Talented Learning

Learn more about John Leh

Early on, I discovered that organizations invest much more heavily in learning programs that reach customers, partners and business community members. Those programs are more fun and interesting to develop and manage than employee learning, because they’re tied to “making money” rather than “saving money.”

However, learning technology analysts have traditionally focused on employee learning and talent management solutions. They’ve largely ignored the much more profitable and unexplored needs of the extended enterprise. There was no help, advice or best practice information for professionals who buy, implement, grow or sell learning technology designed for broader audiences. So I co-founded Talented Learning as the world’s only news, research and consulting firm dedicated to advancing of all aspects of extended enterprise learning.

Q2: For almost two years, you’ve invested much of your time getting to know the most innovative LMS vendors up-close. How does that shape your point-of-view?

JL: I’ve heard there are 600 LMS vendors today. I can’t confirm that, but I can speak to the 90 LMSs I have reviewed and blogged about in the past 20 months. As a recovering sales guy, I strive to learn each vendor’s mission, differentiators, and unique value proposition, as well as the functional capabilities of their LMS. I see demos, do my own exploration and speak to clients. And I’m absolutely amazed at what I found.

There is incredible vendor diversity and differentiation. Each LMS developer has created a niche where they can survive and thrive. I discovered that LMS value is based on varying combinations of the vendor’s experience, services, regional focus, industries served, functional capabilities, technical sturdiness, licensing approach and ongoing support. LMS buyers now have the opportunity to find solution partners who are specialists at making the application of learning technology more effective, innovative and cost effective for their needs than ever. That’s exciting.

Q3: Are more companies choosing these niche LMSs?

JL: Absolutely. For a long time LMS vendors wanted to grow big and support any company, in any industry, in any part of the world. As a result, solutions became bulky, expensive, tough to implement and pretty boring for end learners.

See LMS Reviews at Talented Learning

See LMS Reviews at Talented Learning

Today’s niche vendors have created modern solutions in the cloud, picked a functional or industry focus, and are going after it. From the start, they’ve built their business on highly desirable recurring revenue, by selling monthly or annual subscriptions. This helped them become profitable more quickly, so they could continue to drive innovation in their chosen space.

Now there are a bunch of great solutions that are not interchangeable. I believe learning organizations have a much better chance at success when they choose a “best fit” specialist LMS. That’s why our firm helps organizations define their requirements on a deep functional, technical and business level. It’s the best way to find an ideal solution. In fact, none of our clients have opted for a “top tier” generalist LMS after considering specialist LMS alternatives.

Q4: Is the LMS finally closing the gap between what it promises and what it delivers? 

JL: Yes. For decades, choices were limited to only about 10 generalist vendors. Customers had to pay upfront for a perpetual license, and implementation rollouts were long and expensive. Many buyers failed to achieve the return on investment they anticipated. The political and fiscal cost of buying an LMS became prohibitive, and many buyers were stuck with an underperforming LMS — unable to justify a replacement. Because vendors were paid upfront, they were not inclined to go the extra mile. This only increased the gap between expectation and reality.

However, the birth of the cloud LMS has changed all of that. Now buyers pay as they go, implementation is much quicker, and vendors perform as expected or they are replaced. If a buyer does a good job at defining what they need and want upfront, the expectation gap vanishes. LMS life is much simpler in 2015.

Q5: As you look across the LMS landscape, what surprises you most about current technology, for better or for worse?

JL: I’m a fan of cloud technology — not just hosting in the cloud, but creating a true multi-tenant environment, where every last customer is on the same version of the LMS. This dramatically reduces the resources vendors must invest in customer support, implementation and upgrades. At the same time, it frees more funds for investment in additional innovation. As a result, the pace of development is accelerating.

LMS vendors are continuously innovating across all aspects of their solutions, so they can offer more value to customers in their niche. Social, mobile, gamification, integration, e-commerce, reporting — all these capabilities are advancing differently in the industry. In the past, innovation seemed to be parallel across vendors, because analysts somewhat pushed vendors into the same box. Now, I look forward to every LMS review, because it often uncovers a new gem I haven’t yet seen.

Q6: Are LMS vendors overlooking any key business needs?

JL: Most LMS vendors are not addressing continuing education. Professionals in almost every industry must earn regular training requirements or credits to maintain a right to practice. Doctors, lawyers, architects, auditors, barbers, real estate agents – you name it. A recent Census Bureau study estimates that 46 million U.S. adults participate in continuing education — and the total spend for creating, consuming and selling continuing education content tops $40 billion a year in this country, alone. Yet, estimates for the global LMS market range from $3-$10 billion a year.

That’s a pretty big disparity — but continuing education is very complex to manage. For example, every profession has unique accreditation rules and standards. To complicate matters, each state, province or country has its own regulations and licensing rules for various professions. That’s at least 50 different variations for each education category. A course might be worth 3 credits in Maine, but 2 credits in California — and the LMS needs to manage all of that.

I do a lot of research on this, and I have found that most organizations use a combination of LMS, proprietary systems and manual administration to keep track of it all. That’s a big waste of resources. Only a handful of LMS vendors focus on this now, and are doing it well. As you can expect, they are feasting on the opportunity.

Q7: Late last year, you predicted extended enterprise learning would gain traction in 2015. Do you see signs of this now?

Webinar Replay button: How to Choose an LMS for Customer Training

WEBINAR REPLAY: Join John as he explains how to choose an extended enterprise LMS

JL: Without a doubt. The biggest sign was LinkedIn purchasing Lynda.com. Lynda is a large, very successful content aggregator. It lets organizations buy unlimited content from a variety of authors for only $25 a month. Now, LinkedIn’s 400 million users will have access to Lynda content from an education tab in their LinkedIn account. Every 1 million users who buy the service will contribute $300 million to LinkedIn revenue. It’s a huge business!

Associations have found that this kind of content revenue far eclipses membership fees or trade show income. But your organization doesn’t have to be big to make this work. Even small companies can easily provide “extended” learning. You can generate new revenue streams by delivering learning content and issuing certifications for a fee. Cloud-based LMSs offer a great infrastructure for this — even if you’re only an individual looking to monetize your subject matter expertise.

Q8: Are learning organizations leaving money on the table by overlooking the value of customer and channel education?

JL: Definitely. It’s proven that when B2B companies certify and train customers and partners, they sell more, faster. Many industries already recognize this — software and tech companies lead the way. Channel, prospect and customer education is a core part of their business. Other industries, however, are still slow to adopt this.

Originally, I looked at extended enterprise learning as a progressive tool to obtain competitive differentiation. Now, I think it has graduated to a business essential — and your company will be graded on how well your education programs actually improve outcomes for customers and partners.

Q9: Let’s talk about companies that are ahead of the curve with external training initiatives. What kind of results are they seeing?

JL: We’ve analyzed results from LMS vendors who publish customer outcomes. Their results show:

  • Dramatic improvement in channel performance (anywhere from 2x-7x improvement)
  • Significant increase in sales effectiveness
  • Increased customer satisfaction
  • Reduced support calls
  • Accelerated product rollouts
  • Increased customer renewals/retention
  • Decreased new store/dealer onboarding costs

The bottom line is that external training impact is measurable. Find an audience, give them training to change a behavior, measure the change compared to an untrained audience, and you’ll see measurable ROI. Start small, prove your wins, and grow, grow, grow.

Q10: You share lots of advice with vendors about how to sell enterprise learning technology. What are the biggest (or most common) missteps?

JL: With 13 years of selling LMSs, I became a student of that sales process, and all the missteps you can make. I made most of them, but over time I learned how not to repeat them. Now, as a buyer’s advocate, I get to evaluate many salespeople of all different experience levels.

I’ve seen it all — from terrible to fantastic. And ultimately, I think salespeople talk too much – way too much. Too much selling and not enough listening. You wouldn’t believe how many times I’m interrupted by people who assume they know what I’m thinking or trying to say. That results in an incomplete understanding of the opportunity, and what it will take to win. With so many viable LMS solutions in the world, salespeople lose a lot of deals thinking they have it all, and know it all. Good salespeople — the really good ones — listen way more than they sell.

Q11: What makes a great LMS provider?

JL: It’s not just about having a successful implementation — that’s a given. It’s about enabling the buying organization to be successful in what they’re trying to achieve. If vendors listen, help define appropriate, measurable success criteria, and offer services to align with business goals, they earn true partner status. That’s why “specialist” LMS developers are doing so well — because they understand the specific needs of organizations in their niche. That makes them tough to beat.

However, there are also many “free trial” generalist LMS solutions available. You know you’ve found one when you can sign-up directly on the vendor’s website without even speaking to a sales person. They may be great for basic needs, but they’re based on the assumption that learning organizations don’t need or want any professional guidance. If you need help, or if you want a learning technology partner, these are not the best choice.

Q12: There seems to be no end in sight to LMS innovation. Looking ahead, what technologies do you think will create the most value for business learning?

LMS Innovation Technology TrendsJL: I think there will be more innovation in mobile, social, badges and certification technologies, as well as attracting new users to facilitate better content commerce. I believe most LMS innovation is being driven by extended enterprise applications, because those initiatives are about changing business metrics, and winning a competitive advantage.

Employee development is good, but it is hard to prove progress, so less innovation happens there and budgets are tighter. For the extended enterprise, it is all about building a community of voluntary learners, keeping them engaged, giving them paths to content and credentials they want and need. You want them to buy content, contribute content, and do it again and again. An LMS that does all that well accomplishes much more than an employee-oriented LMS. There is much more room for improvement and innovation in the extended enterprise space. Exciting times ahead!

Editor’s Note: To read more insights from John and learn more about his firm, visit TalentedLearning online. To discuss LMS selection and technology issues with John and other training professionals, join his Talented Learning LinkedIn Group. Or to contact John directly, connect with him on LinkedIn on Twitter or by email.

Note from Expertus: To see how a modern cloud LMS can help your organization deliver a whole new level of extended enterprise learning, see ExpertusONE online. Or contact us at Expertus anytime to discuss your needs and see a personalized demo.

Image Credit: Pixabay

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s